tiadaily.com/php-bin/new...wArticle.php
Source: TIA Daily -- September 2, 2005
Interesting points, however slanted....The nation is in trouble...your thoughts, what is the world saying about te USA
Source: TIA Daily -- September 2, 2005
Interesting points, however slanted....The nation is in trouble...your thoughts, what is the world saying about te USA
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Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Sun, September 4, 2005 - 11:03 AMPart of the confusion and underling confusion is things like this
Bob
Photo captions from Katrina stir debate
JOCELYN NOVECK
Associated Press
NEW YORK - In one of the photos, a man wades through chest-deep waters with a large black bag filled with items from a grocery store. In another, two people wade through equally high waters, carrying bread and soda.
They were just two out of hundreds of stunning images transmitted Tuesday, the day after Katrina ravaged New Orleans. What has drawn attention to these two photos, though, is their captions.
In the first, the young man, who is black, is described as having "looted" the items. In the second, the pair, who are white or light-skinned, are described as "finding" the items.
The photos were by two different photographers working for two different news agencies, The Associated Press and AFP/Getty Images. But they appeared together on Yahoo News, and they sparked a flurry of blog entries, emails and calls contending the captions were unfair to blacks.
"The pictures appear to be identical but one individual is "looting" and the other is "finding" needed items!" one person wrote the AP. "This is irresponsible journalism and fuels the attitude that 'all' African-Americans are looters."
On Thursday, Yahoo withdrew the photo of the light-skinned pair at the request of Agence France Presse, which distributes Getty's U.S-produced photos internationally. In a note, Yahoo wrote it "regrets that these photos and captions, viewed together, may have suggested a racial bias on our part.
AFP said it withdrew the photo because it had been flooded with time-consuming phone calls and emails, while already stretched covering the enormous tragedy.
"It's safe to say that it was just causing us a lot of problems," said Bob Pearson, AFP's director of photography in the United States.
The Associated Press said its policy was clear.
"When we see people go into businesses and come out with goods, we call it looting," said Santiago Lyon, AP's director of photography. "When we just see them carrying things down the road, we call it carrying items."
Lyon said the photographer who took Tuesday's photo, Dave Martin, had seen the man go into the store and take out the items.
As for the other photo, Getty said it stood by its caption and its photographer, Chris Graythen, who says the subjects of his photo were simply picking up items floating by in the dank waters.
And Graythen, frustrated by the controversy, wrote an emotional response on a photojournalism Web site, SportsShooter.com.
"These people were not ducking into a store and busting down windows to get electronics," he wrote. "They picked up bread and cokes that were floating in the water. They would have floated away anyhow."
Yahoo said it believed the controversy was merely a result of the juxtaposition of the two photos.
"We've explained that this was two separate news organizations, two separate photographers and two separate occasions," said Joanna Stevens, spokeswoman for Yahoo Inc. "Once people understand that, they're no longer angry with us."
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Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Sun, September 4, 2005 - 11:28 AMThe views in this article you linked to made me want to puke.
>The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that has swamped New Orleans.<
It seems to me that the notion that our country should be concerned about the welfare of our fellow countrymen is a "brutish, uncivilized mentality" is, well a "brutish, uncivilized mentality!"
I don't watch much TV and missed Meet the Press this morning but this segment with Arron Broussard president of Jefferson Parish caught my attention:
thinkprogress.org/2005/09/0...ndonments/
"We have been abandoned by our own country. Hurricane Katrina will go down in history as one of the worst storms ever to hit an American coast. But the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina will go down as one of the worst abandonments of Americans on American soil ever in U.S. history."
We all have a stake in this. Millions of our fellow Americans are impacted by this disaster. What we say and what we do will affect their lives, and our own too, for years to come. -
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Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Sun, September 4, 2005 - 2:22 PMgreat link...
i plucked this out of your link...
Bureaucracy has committed murder here in the greater New Orleans area and bureaucracy has to stand trial before Congress now.
Broussard then discussed the difficulties local authorities had with FEMA, including one case where they actually posted armed guards to keep FEMA from cutting their communications lines:
Three quick examples. We had Wal-Mart deliver three trucks of water. FEMA turned them back. They said we didn’t need them. This was a week ago. FEMA, we had 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel on a Coast Guard vessel docked in my parish. When we got there with our trucks, FEMA says don’t give you the fuel. Yesterday — yesterday — FEMA comes in and cuts all of our emergency communication lines. They cut them without notice. Our sheriff, Harry Lee, goes back in, he reconnects the line. He posts armed guards and said no one is getting near these lines… -
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Unsu...
Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Wed, September 7, 2005 - 11:03 AMthe director of fema used to be in charge of judging those who judge arabian horse shows...how did he become the director of fema?
I think the this says it all.
"Bureaucracy has murdered people in the greater New Orleans area," Aaron Broussard, president of Jefferson Parish, said on CBS's "Early Show." "So I'm asking Congress, please investigate this now. Take whatever idiot they have at the top of whatever agency and give me a better idiot. Give me a caring idiot. Give me a sensitive idiot. Just don't give me the same idiot."
emphisis on "idiot"
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Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Sun, September 4, 2005 - 2:38 PMOne answer to the question you raise: "So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?" has got to be FEMA. The agency failed so miserably and excuses are meaningless. Mike Brown should resign, but demands to fire him should be heard wide and far. -
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Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Sun, September 4, 2005 - 2:52 PMThis tribe brings together all of us who are trying to promote community where we are. I've been so sad and numb this past week and probably not the only one. But today I'm feeling angry. I'm never sure that being angry does any good, but Katrina lays bare the moral emptiness of our current politics. It's time to shout that out. But when it's also time that we muster all the creativity we can in our communities and extend ourselves.
Here's a link to Juan Cole's recent post:
"Conclusion: Bush cares deeply about the property of rich white people."
www.juancole.com/2005/09/l...lujah.html -
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Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Sun, September 4, 2005 - 5:40 PMGood point, where are the community activist...speak folks -
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Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Sun, September 4, 2005 - 5:40 PMNew Orleans' local newspaper, the Times-Picayune, is blasting President Bush for his handling of response to Hurricane Katrina, and is calling for heads to roll within his administration.
"Every official at the Federal Emergency Management Agency should be fired, Director Michael Brown especially," the paper says. Read the latest at WorldNetDaily.com!
wnd.com
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Unsu...
Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Mon, September 5, 2005 - 7:31 AMI'm confused....as I'm sure many citizens are:
Why did FEMA do such negligent things?
Maybe a more precise question would be:
So what explain the chaos in FEMA?
I'm open to comments -
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Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Mon, September 5, 2005 - 9:57 AM>Why did FEMA do such negligent things?<
I generally find myself on the left of things as far as political debates go, except here at tribe I get plenty of derision for being way too mushy. Part of that is being an old fogey or something. Anyway my saying that Michael Brown should be fired doesn't come from any intention to help the Democrat party. As I see it the response to this disaster was just awful and we've got to figure out how to do better in the future. That just doesn't seem to be a particularly partisan thing to say.
Already the political spin machine is in high gear. I live near Pittsburgh and read the Post-Gazette. Letters to the Editor follow the basic talking point that the local officials (Democrats) are to blame. That's not the case because the response was federalized from the very beginning.
Nobody could figure out who was in charge. That's something plain from what I've read. Water trucks turned away, local agencies told not to move until given the direction and no directions every came, even the Red Cross not allowed into New Orleans!
Part of the reason for the confusion about who was in charge has to do with high officials being on vacation and apparently in no hurry to return, both president Bush and vice president Cheney notable laggards.
Another reason for the confusion was FEMA being folded into the Homeland Security Department. Chertoff took the reigns from Brown and called the shots from Washington. But communications were so bad that information in Washington was totally inadequate. So the people on the ground were responding to orders that made little sense in regard to what was happening on the ground.
But there's a back story too of how FEMA was gutted. Money was shifted to make it available for terrorism response at Homeland Security--an Agency in utter disarray. Political cronies were put in place at FEMA and contracts privitized to politically favored contractors.
Plans were made at great expense, but no actions were taken to make it possible to implement the planning. So when disaster occured they were winging it. Brown an incompentent political appointee didn't have a clue and Chertoff took the reigns of power getting little information and having no strategy.
Here are some links to blog entries that summarize some good reporting on these matters.
www.dailykos.com/storyonly...2528/13587
www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005...171811/1974
www.washingtonmonthly.com/archi...23.php
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My view should provide some clarity....
Mon, September 5, 2005 - 4:21 PMIn my original blog I let loose some frustration about the current status quo of New Orleans Leadership and our current government and now with a sound mind and a rested body I can tell you that....I'm still Mad As Hell!!!
1. Even though most of the CITIZENS of New Orleans live paycheck to paycheck they still get taxed on their earnings.
Those taxes are for the citizens welfare and their safety.(They have been robbed!!!)
2.Speaking of the leadership half of the New Orleans police force walked off the job.(Gov./mayor/reps of louisiana a qoute from Remember the Titans-Attitude reflects leadership!!!)
3.On the television and young man stole a TV and didn't even have power to turn it on and was happy to have it???
(Who's fault you say???)
Gov/Mayor/Reps
(Why you say??)
What kinda programs do you have set up for your Citizens???
The paycheck to paycheck money that you tax them for is supposed to help provide educational programs for your "CITIZENS" so that they would know that it isn't benefical to steal a TV when you have no power!
You(Gov/mayor/reps) haven't just now failed them you've been doing it for years.
It now has just been brought to light.
And I hope it burns the hell out of you.
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Re: My view should provide some clarity....
Tue, September 6, 2005 - 12:15 AMwhy did they walk off the job? -
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Re: My view should provide some clarity....
Tue, September 6, 2005 - 10:27 AMProbably for a whirlwind of reasons....Scared,family & all men for themselves.
The thing is if you ever served in the military there is usually one commander who would right the ship.
( I had a CO when I was stationed in Puerto Rico that you would rather go Bearhuntin' with a "switch" than disobey or run away!!!)
They didn't have a person in the police force to rally the troops.
That is a scary turn of events.
Rise -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: My view should provide some clarity....
Thu, September 8, 2005 - 10:25 AMahh- makes sense. I was wondering what going through all of that--*AND* being an authority figure--
without direction or resources-
scary. I feel bad for them. It'll haunt them.
speaking of authority. according to this--FEMA officially took control before the hurricane even made landfall.
which is just depressing. meaning really it does come down to negligence from the feds
www.thismodernworld.com/weblog...#002439
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Unsu...
Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Sat, September 10, 2005 - 7:07 PMHere is a quote from David Brooks, editorialist at the NY Times. I think its extremely accurate.
"liberals who think this disaster is going to set off a progressive revival need to explain how a comprehensive governmental failure is going to restore America's faith in big government."
Here's some text that preceded the above:
But of course this illustrates the paradox at the heart of the Katrina disaster, which is that we really need government in times like this, but government is extremely limited in what it can effectively do.
Katrina was the most anticipated natural disaster in American history, and still government managed to fail at every level.
For the brutal fact is, government tends toward bureaucracy, which means elaborate paper flow but ineffective action. Government depends on planning, but planners can never really anticipate the inevitable complexity of events. And American government is inevitably divided and power is inevitably devolved. -
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Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Sun, September 11, 2005 - 3:16 PMNo.
You're pushing an ideology. I'm not going to accept that dichotomy. It's the easy way out.
It too conveniently allows us to take credit for our successes but dodge responsibility when things go wrong. Essentially you're saying that government failed these people because it's in government's nature to fail when it tries to do anything complex or big or expensive. It's an elitist, simplistic characterization, and no. sorry.
If China can pull off flood evacs and save more people--
If we could organize D-DAY, the largest and most complex invasion in the history of man, I think we could get some water to the people in the Astrodome. "Do you people have a television?" Brown was asked. Gimme a break. It's unforgivable.
"For the brutal fact is, government tends toward bureaucracy, which means elaborate paper flow but ineffective action."
only when it doesn't give a shit, Sean. only when it's being run by people not qualified. when it's being run by ideologues who don't understand processes, efficiency and implementation or politicos who are too focused on tertiary priorities other than public service--
then yes. you could very easily see these things as inevitable. the sad thing is that too many people are resigned to this notion--and feel that the only way to fix it is to break it.
Welp it's broken. Behold the wreckage. I'm surprised and saddened to see people like Brooks--incapable of seeing the human cost of this--feel this is an opportunity to forward their political talking points.
"liberals who think this disaster is going to set off a progressive revival need to explain how a comprehensive governmental failure is going to restore America's faith in big government."
no. any progressive revival is going to simply be spurred from having seen too much incompetence. big government- ha. can we chill on the rhetoric already? the two-word game? can we stop playing and take this shit seriously? please? people are kind of um... DYING here. -
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Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Mon, September 12, 2005 - 2:32 PMI couldn't agree more. The failure here was not that big govenment isn't capable of doing the job it is that the guys currently running the big government are incapable of doing the job.
Thank God Michael Brown resigned! -
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Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Mon, September 12, 2005 - 2:52 PMI wonder... (yeah and agreed. thank God Brown is gone)
(this thought came to me after my diatribe)
why is it that this term "BIG GOVERNMENT" only comes up in various contexts that involve class issues?
I never hear big government mentioned when they talk about the "death tax" or the war. But when it comes to talking about any kind of expenditure for anyone other than the top 1% of income,
the word big government comes into play.
I've heard too many stories about nonprofits being turned away. Trucks full of water being turned away. Airdrops? what's an airdrop?
I don't want to be divisive and vitriolic about this, but I'm too angry. Too many people DIED for this to be bandied about in the circles of the complacent.
There's a saying:
Sentiment without action is the ruin of the soul.
PONY UP
I'm getting tired of the hypocrites. Really tired. -
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Unsu...
Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Wed, September 14, 2005 - 3:12 AMfirst of all was the organization of FEMA/Homeland Security and those around it who had to deal with it such as city, county and State organizations in the region.
what makes me even more angry is that in July of 2004 Fema along with the National Weather Service conducted a disaster program with the city of New Orleans and the surrounding area agencies. as computer data was added and the stress levels rose during the excerise it became clear what could happen did happen. they knew well before this storm and at every level of goverment what could happen and even then as you read the data they severely under estimated the level of damage and they failed to do a damned thing right. the failure of those levees was the one factor that no one seemed to have a handle on, instead it was days later before they were dealt with and the damage was done. how could they have left out a serious discussion about what to do when the levees or canals fail. it makes me want to scream ....and whats scary is this lurks all over the country in citys everywhere.
www.cnn.com/2005/POLITIC.....urricane.drill/
Michael Brown wasn't the only one that needed to be fired or forced to resign like he finally did. bush finally admitted he is to blame also and you know for the first time some other heads like Chertoff might just roll.
as a people I think citys like LA, Philadelphia, Boston and New York as well as around the country have to stand up and express concerns about their own disaster plans and their ability to execute them. this kind of chaos and confusion cannot happen again.
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Unsu...
Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Wed, September 14, 2005 - 8:19 AM1. I'm not pushing any ideology.
2. The human cost is the very reason why this is important enough to have an open and honest discussion about it.
My personal opinion, is rely on government at your own peril. -
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Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Wed, September 14, 2005 - 10:27 AMI really appreciate your two points:
>1. I'm not pushing any ideology.
>2. The human cost is the very reason why this is important .enough to have an open and honest discussion about it.
And I want to add my two cents. Many people in the world are quite comfortable about having an ideology, indeed find them necessary, but most Americans recoil at the idea. I'm pretty typical and think I'm non-ideological. In a way it's about worldviews. Europeans are comfortable talking about their ideologies partly because they see the value in holding them up to questioning. Most Americans are probably always going to be uncomfortable with the term ideology, but we would benefit from questioning--or as you put it "open and honest discussion."
Frances Moore Lappe wrote an intersting book in the late 1980's "Rediscovering America's Values." In it she wrote about worldviews:
"A worldview is a set of interlocking ideas. As human beings, we all seek consistency, a coherency in how our values fit together. In this melding, a worldview takes shape. What distinquishes it from dogma is a willingness to examine premises, that is to probe the component values that undergird our assumptions."
Limited government is something both left and right agree on in priciple here in the USA, of course disagreeing on what limits are appropriate. Brooks from your snippet:
"But of course this illustrates the paradox at the heart of the Katrina disaster, which is that we really need government in times like this, but government is extremely limited in what it can effectively do."
So how can we as citizens be effective in helping in the aftermath of this disaster? I just posted a post on my blog about Time Dollars. It seems lame to me, but it's a stab at answering the question, as in something we could do. -
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Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Wed, September 14, 2005 - 11:55 AMgood Devan quote- gracias.
interesting thing on Time Dollars-
I could see it having some usefulness in a disaster area in a closed system--with the right oversight mechanisms it could translate into something really cool--
Karma put into currency- heh.
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what can we do as citizens?
volunteer. even locally. maybe it gives another person who's already volunteering at X or Y organization the peace of mind knowing that something's covered so they go--
see what local groups are assisting with Katrina. check their 10-90's or check them out on GuideStar. See if they're efficient and effective. Give 'em ten bucks.
Take a bagged lunch to work for a week and give the difference.
Don't give Food and Clothes--the Red Cross and Salvation Army would have to pay for the transport of those items. they'd rather buy them closer to the disaster-
cheaper and better for the economic recovery.
maybe... just maybe...
go get certified for CPR. go talk to the red cross. they need skilled people--find out where you could fit. hey maybe not this one but what if something happens locally?
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the damning damdest problem is that we are a culture of isolation. from cubicle to car to the tv set and so on. Even volunteering one hour a week somewhere--gives you a completely new sense of context.
when you have even the slightest understanding of the human cost, you have no choice but to act in some way. idiology? no--I think it's an issue of wiring. As social primates, our context is set by our community. We must act within that context--
the sad, sad thing is that most of us have lost this sense of context.
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Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Wed, September 14, 2005 - 9:53 PMwww.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...55.html
You're saying that the following is bound to happen? Get a clue. It didn't happen in Mumbai in a recent flood. Why not? Because the government and the armed forces and rescue organizations were less interested in the expense and more interested in working to save lives and infrustructure.
See comments here as well to really get your blood boiling...
ttp://blogs.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2005/09/welcome_to_earl.html#comment-9469419
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Unsu...
Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Wed, September 14, 2005 - 9:14 AMSpeaking of Katrina, Sumiko Tan, a columnist for the Sunday edition of The Straits Times in Singapore, wrote: "We were shocked at what we saw. Death and destruction from natural disaster is par for the course. But the pictures of dead people left uncollected on the streets, armed looters ransacking shops, survivors desperate to be rescued, racial divisions - these were truly out of sync with what we'd imagined the land of the free to be, even if we had encountered homelessness and violence on visits there. ... If America becomes so unglued when bad things happen in its own backyard, how can it fulfill its role as leader of the world?"
Janadas Devan, a Straits Times columnist, tried to explain to his Asian readers how the U.S. is changing. "Today's conservatives," he wrote, "differ in one crucial aspect from yesterday's conservatives: the latter believed in small government, but believed, too, that a country ought to pay for all the government that it needed.
"The former believe in no government, and therefore conclude that there is no need for a country to pay for even the government that it does have. ... [But] it is not only government that doesn't show up when government is starved of resources and leached of all its meaning. Community doesn't show up either, sacrifice doesn't show up, pulling together doesn't show up, 'we're all in this together' doesn't show up." -
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Re: So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
Tue, October 4, 2005 - 10:00 AMHurricane Katrina, is LIKE a typical woman scorned that the world is never prepared for! When she came she was warm, wild and wet. When she left she took the house(s) and contents with her.
President Bush has just released a statement following his
investigation into the New Orleans disaster - he's blaming the whole thing on suicide plumbers who just wanted to throw a spanner in the works.
Meanwhile the Mayor of New Orleans has denied rumours the Mardi Gras is cancelled. He says he's expecting a record number of floats this year.
Five black men in purple dinner jackets & bow ties were found floating today under a pier in New Orleans. DNA tests later identified them as The Drifters. Rumour has it they were under the boardwalk, down by the sea.
In a similar vein, Eric Burden & the animals are re-releasing their earlier hit, it now begins like this.. "There WAS a house in New Orleans".
Also reported is that two plane loads of volunteers left from Australia today bound for New Orleans to assist with the looting.
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